Dr. Jordan B Peterson - Professor and clinical psychologist

Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#41
Does not Feeling also overlap with Intuition, not just sensing? Ever heard of "gut feeling"? If both Sensing and Intuition overlaps with Feeling, why is that an issue? Let us say that you are more Thinking than Feeling. You are only 2/10 on Feeling. Then the Sensing/Intuition continuum is just dialled down somewhat.

Psychology is not a "hard" science, like physics or chemistry. There are no absolutes.

All the above is said with complete ignorance.
 
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Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#43
I do not see overlaps as a problem. Just look at the Hexaco personality inventory. There is a main category and subcategories, each on a continuum. Each subcategory could be argued to overlap on its parent category, since they are a part of it.

Rest assured, I am sure Jung was a nutcase like Freud. But I do like a good argument. :LOL:
 

Bee

Founding Member
#44
Your Jungian Type Indicator will have predicted that:

a) you don't find overlaps a problem, and
b) you are highly disagreeable

;)
 

Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#45
It seems that Patreon is going a bit political, where they want to shut down accounts, according to some, due to political differences. There is also discussion that the credit card companies, such as Mastercard, VISA, PayPal etc. are also flexing their muscles. Without the financial transaction ability of these companies, websites like Patreon cannot function effectively.

So it appears, at least conspiritorilly, that freedom of speech is being hampered by both the financial institutions behind the scenes and also the websites such as Patreon, dare I say it Facebook, and, eek, Google! They have all come under scrutiny.

Essentially, silicon valley is left wing. Yet they wield so much power. They have become the gatekeepers to knowledge, where Googling "idiot" brings up Trump. Slanting data is curtailing the freedoms people voted for!
 

Uncle Gizmo

Founding Member
#46
Some of their ideas still have some weight and legitimacy, but there is also a portion of their work which has been superseded
I haven't looked at Sigmund Freud yet, although I do get the impression he is more discredited than Jung... I have no idea really, and I have yet to come across anything that I would consider a true statement. I get the distinct impression that Jordan B Peterson has studied both Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung in great detail, and many other people. I also get the impression that he has a lot of respect for the two of them. I also get the impression that he's condensed what he's discovered into something that he is presenting very well.

Another thing of note, is all his YouTube videos, they are out there, they are easily accessible to criticism. Therefore I strongly suspect the content is correct as far as it can be regarding this subject! He reminds me of a lecturer at college Mr Ray (and that's not the correct spelling, it just won't come to me, I think it had a W in it?) Mr Ray was an exceptional lecturer, and I feel the same about Jordan B Peterson, he has a skill, a gift for it.

Something which is really amazing, to me at any rate, you may have noticed I have promoted Eckhart Tolle in other threads. Both Eckhart and Jordan overlap on what they are saying. There is much very similar, its uncanny! Why I say that is they are both totally different. Tolle, very much like a spiritualist, although actually, he is from university background. And Jordan a clinical psychologist.

I'll just elaborate on that a bit, Tolle refers to intangible things, things which you have to know in yourself... He points you towards the spiritualness in yourself. Whereas Jordan explains the human mind as an evolved, evolving evolutionary system, his description of the Lobster Communities and similarity between the lobster hierarchy and human hierarchies. It's brilliant in that he opens himself wide open for criticism and ridicule, but in reality is based on good science. I can't say much more because I don't know that much. However I'm determined to learn much more about it, up until I get bored with it and move on to the next thing anyway!
 

Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#47
I have considered opening a forum section called, "Amazing people." I pondered about that the other day, thinking we could have Tolle, Peterson, Freud, Plato, Trump (hehe), and others in there. The threads could be talking about these amazing individuals. Just a thought.
 

Bee

Founding Member
#48
Peterson is a psychologist himself, obviously. I would expect him to have studied Jung and Freud - that's where all psychologists begin. Not everything Jung and Freud determined is incorrect, but there are large tracts of Jungian and Freudian teachings which have been superseded - or applied incorrectly, leading to pseudo-scientific truths which are promulgated through poor research and testing (ie Myers-Briggs).

I have a lot of time for Jordan Peterson. He applies his learning and theories in a logical, systematic fashion and it's hard to argue against what he says. However, how he says things is what tends to get him into hot water - or rather, what people *think* they've heard him say.
 

Uncle Gizmo

Founding Member
#49
However, how he says things is what tends to get him into hot water -
I think he does it deliberately, he likes to confront people and see how they react. Probably a good divining tool for examining their psychology. I noticed in one interview Jordan picked up on the fact that the person interviewing him was following an ideology. Once he identified that, he said I'm not speaking to you, I'm speaking to an ideology, I don't want that, I want to understand you. I want you to think! I want you to tell me your thoughts your ideas. But the person still pursued their ideology, and Jordan appeared frustrated and stopped engaging, just occasionally trying to prod the person into exposing their own thoughts.
 

Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#50
he said I'm not speaking to you, I'm speaking to an ideology
I remember him saying something like that. It is easy to identify because they are using the common lexicon of that ideology. e.g. #MeToo
 

Uncle Gizmo

Founding Member
#53
This lexicon.....
Your mention of Lexicon reminded me of another "shelf Project".

Words have always fascinated me, one thing I've noticed is that we don't actually read words. The word contains the phonetic elements so that you can build it, but you don't actually phonetically read it, unless it is a word you don't understand. You actually see the word, sort of like a picture. I thought why not have pictures, a pictorial language, a universal language an "iconic language" ...

I search the internet and I found a couple of books on the subject along with some sparse free stuff.

And this:-
Iconic Communication
by Yazdani, Masoud

The problem with an iconic language is that one picture will mean one thing to one person and an mean something completely different to another. For example in England, dog = pet, in Thailand dog = food...

So an iconic language based on pictures was out of the question. Hold on though is it? Well actually, No it's not, not with a mobile phone App. With an app, you can show the user if they are English, a dog meaning dog and if they are Thai, a dog meaning food...

I also worked out a very clever (I thought) interface, based on text messaging. Text messaging was the initial thing that pointed me in the direction of an iconic language. I remember when phones were first given the text messaging ability, my wife and other female members of the family spend an inordinate amount of time communicating by text messages. They also developed a technique of creating words to limit the number of characters they had to press. I realised how important it was, particularly for women to be able to communicate in this way. I don't know why, but there's something fundamental about it that is attractive to women.

I realised that an iconic language would put "Texting" in the hands of women who couldn't read. The Number of women who can't read, make up quite a large proportion of the third world. I also realised that eventually our technology, our discarded mobile phones will percolate through the stratus of humanity to the poorest.

I was in an auction room just outside London, talking to Robert, a Kenyan chap buying laptops to take back to Kenya for sale. I explain to him my idea of the Iconic language and he was intrigued. You see the other thing about an Iconic language is it allows people with different languages to talk to each other. What I got from Robert ways that Kenya is riddled with multiple languages, and what I didn't know, the language you speak dictates the class (Caste?) you are in. If you can acquire a new language, a higher Caste language, then you can move up into that Caste. It was just the language which was the barrier.

I realised there would also be an exceptional motivation for certain people to learn to read. Another aspect to the Iconic language, is you could pop up the actual word associated with the icon and start teaching people how to read.

Now there are in the region of 7000 languages in the World, so there's no way I can create this and set up all the languages and everything, it would just be impossible. However go back to what I said about the ladies adapting the SMS messaging system to their needs, creating their own language their own words! I realised that if the mechanism could be set up, and remembering something Jon said, a minimum viable system. Provide a minimum viable system and I think the women would build the rest for you.

Now don't get me wrong, there are loads and loads and loads and loads of problems! One of the main problems is how to convey action words? Well I thought about this and I wondered about little moving gifs demonstrating the action. I have found software on the internet where it's very easy to draw little sets of pictures and turn them into an animation. You could also video somebody doing something, and turn it into a tiny moving icon.

You might ask WHY? You might ask where's the money? I don't know WHY! - except that I just feel instinctively that it will work and is needed. I have no idea other than that. What I would say is that so far, every obstacle that has presented itself Has fallen away, once I applied a little effort to solving the problem. And of the remaining problems I see, I don't see anything that doesn't have a solution. Now; there are obviously problems I have yet to discover! Now; whether these will fall away or not, remains to be seen!

As for the money, one feature of my interface is that it stores the order the icons are presented in, in other words it records how people communicate. For example in England we say "the green dress" and in Spain they might say "the dress green" - in other words the technology extracts useful information about language. Now you might say that the technology is already there to take your speech and turn it into text.
However there are only a very few languages that is available for. And like I said there are over 7000 languages! So I think the system has an intrinsic value in the way it collects data. And another aspect of speech, speech can be overheard, texting can be done in secret, think of the dis-empowered women of the world. A secret communication system based on an iconic language, in other words they don't need to be able to read. Think of the power it would it give them!

Anyway my stumbling block at the moment as I need "Lexicons" I need sets of images along with what they represent, in English a single word hopefully! So if you see anything like that I would be very interested!

There's also a contrary view on iconic languages here is one example:- The Ideographic Myth
 

Uncle Gizmo

Founding Member
#54
"Amazing people"
Here's the first!

Iqbal Quadir
Who is the man in that Video below?
That man is Iqbal Quadir speaking in Oxford UK. It is a video from a man's heart about his passion. when I first saw it, that struck me, that put in me the mission to have as many people view this video as possible. Iqbal is not a professional speaker, in fact his style is a little slow at first, if you get past the first couple of minutes, then I know his message will grab your attention. You will suddenly realise the power within this short video clip. Once you have watched it, find at least one person and ask them to watch it, pass it on like a chain letter. One day the video will land in the lap of someone with an idea for a another business that would fit this model and help the third world.

Iqbal Quadir on YouTube:-



Iqbal Quadir on Wikipedia

Iqbal Quadir has single-handedly got a Government, a Business, and a Bank to work together to provide the poor people of Bangladesh with a mobile phone system. his idea has empowered millions of poor people in Bangladesh. He has done single-handedly what the western world could not do with billions of pounds spent in aid over the last 60 years.

Charitable aid is NOT Working; in fact it is damaging the poor countries.
 

Bee

Founding Member
#56
I am currently studying an iconic language - British Sign Language. At first, I found it incredibly restrictive because the number of words used are so condensed. For example:

(English): What is your name?
(Sign Supported English): Your name what?
(BSL): Name what?

I also struggled with facial expressions - but they are necessary to put the sign in context.

For example, the following video shows the word 'happy'. You can use the same sign, with a sad or frowning facial expression to say 'unhappy.'

https://media.signbsl.com/videos/bsl/signmonkey/mp4/happy.mp4

As I mentioned on another post, many children who are Deaf struggle to read, because English isn't their first language - BSL is - and there's a disconnect between the signs they use to communicate and the structure of English, ie they use iconic language, not words. Huawei have developed software using AI technology to translate words into sign language to assist Deaf children. It's all explained in the video below - and even if you are not particularly interested in Iconic Languages, it's an interesting insight into how AI is being developed to help improve the lives of people.

https://consumer.huawei.com/uk/campaign/storysign/app/
 

Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#59
For all you Jordan Peterson fans out there. We know who you are, Uncle!


A compelling presentation by Jordan at the Oxford Union. He is indeed one of the smartest intellectuals of our time.
 
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