Trump - the International Diplomat

[Bee]

‘“I think it will all work out very well, and also for you with your wall, your border. I mean, we have a border situation in the United States, and you have one over here. But I hear it’s going to work out very well here.” Donald Trump speaking at a joint press conference with Leo Varadkar, the Irish PM.

Clearly the man has no idea about the Irish situation and is woefully underbriefed. He may be a good President. I don't know, I'm not American. However, I am Irish.

 

[Jon]

Why do you say he doesn't have an idea about the Irish situation?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Trump has an idea about the Irish situation. It just isn't a very clear one. To be honest, I'm not clear on it either, because I don't know specifics about Ireland and its immigration problems. But then, it is of less interest to him since the border in question isn't one that he thinks requires HIM to build another wall. I voted for Trump only because Hillary gave me MORE and WORSE nightmares than Donald. But there are times HE is a nightmare too. Surely you have had elections on the eastern side of the pond in which you had to hold your nose with one hand while voting with the other?

 

[Bee]

Ireland doesn't have immigration problems.

The issue with the Irish border is both simple and complex. The simple version is 100 years ago, Ireland was fighting for independence from British Rule. The majority of (Catholic) Ireland wanted independence and a united Ireland. The majority of (Protestant) Ireland - located in the northern provinces wanted to remain under British rule.

The deal enforced by the British was the partition of Northern Ireland, which to this day forms part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The southern part of Ireland, gained independence in 1922 and is known as the Republic of Ireland, or Éire. It is a completely independent country from the UK in the same way that France, or China, or Bolivia is.

However, since then there has been significant unrest in Ireland. You will have heard of the IRA, I'm sure. The IRA were/are a terrorist unit who were campaigning for the British to get out of Northern Ireland and for Ireland to be united again. The Northern Irish side also had terrorist units, fighting against the IRA.

The situation was not helped by the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic. It is only since 1998, with the signing of the Good Friday Agreement, that there has been anything resembling peace in Northern Ireland and the Republic. At that time, the border was abolished and there has been freedom of movement between both countries. Neither side wishes to violate the Agreement, but tensions are high and the political atmosphere is unstable.

Crucially, the GFA states that there will be no hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic. However, if Brexit goes ahead, Northern Ireland will leave the EU at the same time as the UK. This exposes the Republic of Ireland as they will remain in the EU, with an unprotected border. If either Northern or Southern Ireland implement a border, the Good Friday Agreement will be nullified and we will see a return to terrorism and loss of (innocent) life.

The Donald's quote demonstrates he has no clue about any of it - even on a superficial level. Read it aloud. If you heard someone else say those words, in that order, would you be filled with confidence that it will all work out okay?

Sure, I get the point that he's not interested in the Irish border. It's not his problem. But he is supposed to be aware of politically sensitive issues and foreign matters and he's obviously out of his depth. Now, I have two thoughts on this:

1. He should have had an answer prepared as it was quite likely he'd be asked about it - his answer makes him sound clueless - it means nothing at all... bigly.
2. Why are his staff letting him be interviewed without being sufficiently briefed?

And, Doc - this was not an attack on YOU (and by the way, over here, we consider it quite rude WHEN PEOPLE USE CAPS).

 

[Jon]

Interesting perspective Bee. May I ask what specifically Trump has said that was factually wrong or inaccurate?

 

[Bee]

The whole statement is a nothing-burger. There's no meaningful content. He's said nothing of any use or substance. It's like he's on the same pills Sarah Palin swallowed - just soundbites of garbled nonsense.

 

[Jon]

My point is that people are making out that it is a gaffe, but there is nothing factually wrong about what he has said. Ireland used to have a hard border, it is full of peace-walls and with the backstop issue, many in Ireland are fearing the return of a hard border. If it sounds like I know what I am talking about, I don't. I just did some Googling!

I think I read that Ireland has 34km of "peace-walls", although I don't know if any of those are on the border. They seem to be separation barriers to between the Catholics and Protestants, a bit like the barriers in Iraq dividing the Shiites and the Sunnies. Oh the parallels...

Are they friendly with one another nowadays? I wonder how political correctness goes down over those parts, considering that judging another by their religion is considered a faux paux.

 

[Bee]

No - they are not friendly nowadays, hence the tension I mentioned and the fear of a return to the atrocities of terrorism. It goes beyond religion though - the people of Northern Ireland consider themselves British. Whereas the people in the Republic want a united Ireland. This has been going on for more than 100 years now - and it's totally thanks to British colonialism that this problem exists.

I don't necessarily think what he said was a gaffe. It's not like he said 'Build the wall' in Ireland... He just wasn't coherent in his response and I think his aides let him down as he was so under-prepared.

 

[Jon]

I may be ignorant here, but is land considered first come first served? i.e. settlors as opposed to immigration, or colonialism?

 

[Bee]

The Normans (who were the rulers at the time of England) invaded Ireland in the 12th Century. Ireland remained under 'British' rule, but Britain did not assert full control of Ireland until 1541. The resulting arrival of thousands of Protestant settlers from England and Scotland displaced many of the existing Catholic landholders and sowed the seeds for centuries of on-off sectarian and military conflict.

Wars in the middle and end of the 17th Century cemented the Protestant ascendancy, with William of Orange's victory over James II in the Battle of Boyne in 1690 both celebrated and mourned to this day - this is where the Orange Lodge comes from.

The Irish Parliament was abolished in 1801, with Ireland becoming a part of the new United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland under the Act of Union, but Potato Famine of the 1840s, in which a million people are estimated to have died, with a further two million emigrating, is regarded by many as a turning point in relations between the countries - and when real hostilities began.

Read the full article here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26883211

No need to thank me for the history lesson. If your argument is that no-one owns land, then you are in danger of agreeing with Carl Marx who said: All property is theft.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

First, Bee, "the Donald" is notorious for serving up nothing-burgers over here, too. Your assessment is correct that sometimes more than other times, he seems empty-headed. But then, he is not a real politician. He just portrays one on TV. As to his aides letting him down, his track record on following the advice of his advisors is less than stellar. I do not make excuses for him. He's my president by valid election and his opponent was not likely to be popular either, though for different reasons. "The Donald" seems vacuous. Hillary is venomous. But the USA economy and unemployment rates in particular are excellent so he isn't totally useless.

Second, a whole post or even a long sentence in all caps would indeed be rude, but I was always told that an occasional capitalization is a valid form of emphasis online. Sometimes I don't use italicization or emboldened letters or underscoring. It also depends on what time of night I am posting. No rudeness was intended; emphasis was definitely my goal.