Disgraceful Gillette advert

[Jon]

Attacking men, stereotyping, slurring them all as abusers, attacking masculinity, and emasculating men's own evolved nature. Imagine an advert that blatantly abused women in a similar manner. You can see it now, a Gillette advert for women asking them to stop making false sexual assault allegations.

This is the new racism: toxic masculinity. They have even invented the term for it, to make it seem like a legitimate claim.

Since when has equality meant attacking just one sex based on their innate nature?

There is a reason this advert has attracted over 11M views, with 600K dislikes in one day. And 180K replies. They are going to lose a ton of business.

I am getting appalled by the ever-increasing attacking of men. This feminism stuff is not about equality, as I have claimed many times. It is about a power grab. Not content with equal treatment under the law, there has to be an attack on the very nature of men themselves. As previously mentioned, you wouldn't criticise a black guy for having black skin. That is racist. Yet it seems fine for women - who complain of sexism but use the term mansplaining - to criticise men for their nature. They are using the #MeToo movement as a shield to slur men. Hypocrisy if I ever saw it.

I would like to add that women do not seek weak men who are...oh, just refer to my previous posts on this! Evolution has made us a certain way. Preferences are largely innate and women are attracted to certain types of men. If that is not true, how do you explain their mate choice which has led to the gene selection that supports these attributes? Essentially, women were one half of the equation that led to trait shopping.

Your thoughts on a postcard.

 

[Bee]

You all know my views on feminism, so I am not going to repeat myself. Even so, I think this advert is potentially a cynical ploy to grab onto the coat-tails of a much more important topic. It's virtue signalling at it's worst. Who gave Gilette the mandate to tell men how to behave?

However, women have had to deal with a range of negative adverts and stereotypes since those 'Mad Men' harnessed the power of the advertising medium. And so, for that reason, I'm a little unsympathetic (not totally, just a little).

But, one phrase keeps coming up in your posts, Jon - "power grab" - and I don't really know what you mean by that. My gut reaction to that phrase is to respond emotively, probably in the same way many people have responded to the Gilette advert. But, I'd prefer to check what you mean, so I can consider what you are saying.

 

[Jon]

Power-grab is trying to take more control over something or someone. So, by using terms such as "toxic masculinity", you are trying to manipulate men's behaviour into some ideological framework that suits the activists. Earlier, I was reading an article on the Gillette scandal and it talked about feminism wanting to destroy existing power structures. So, feminism is about the redistribution of power, which is a power grab.

 

[Bee]

I agree that feminism is about a redistribution of power - but only so far as to equalise it. I have more trouble with seeing it as a power-grab as per your definition. It's not about taking control over men. But it is about making life fairer for 50% of the population. This point goes back to the discussion on another thread where I said that equality at the expense of men is problematic. And it is - we have to think of the prize/outcome in a different way or men will feel emasculated and threatened and that would lead to a worsening in attitudes and behaviours for both men and women.

Calling it a power grab also plays into the narrative of 'toxic-masculinity' ie men have something to fear from women having more power.

 

[Jon]

I do not agree that feminism is about equalisation of power. And besides, what is equal for one is not equal for another. e.g. no pay gap but men pay for everything, "because I do like a man to be a gentleman." They are trying to have it both ways.

Do you believe that women want equal rights? Then why is it only 7% of women in the UK consider themselves a feminist? Perhaps because feminism is no longer about equal rights, but a power grab. Or, can I flip that for a second? Perhaps they want MORE than equal rights, and that is why they are not a feminist (if using the traditional understanding of the word). Either way, it is seeking more power.

Calling it a power grab also plays into the narrative of 'toxic-masculinity' ie men have something to fear from women having more power.

That sentence has so many laden issues within it that I don't know where to start! You are assuming that fearing women having more power is something to do with toxic-masculinity. I don't think gender has anything to do with it. If anyone has more power, there could be something to fear. The use of the word fear is also wrong. Why choose fear, rather than dislike or consider it unfair? You are talking about 50:50 equality as being fair, but then use the term fear (instead of fair), when it comes to referring to men. This is where I believe the easily available ready-made lexicon of prejudice gets used as a tool to try to win a debate. Calling something out for what it is, is about the truth. If airing a view is due to my toxic gender behaviour then I can only deduce that this is another kind of no-platforming. Shut the argument down because my view is just further proof of my toxic nature.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

>>>Men need to hold men accountable?<<<
Isn't that a bit like mansplaining, in other words, like saying the women aren't able to sort these creeps out themselves?

I must say I, on one occasion quite innocently did something in the workplace, which a woman took offense to, and she really put me in my place! I was quite offended because I had no intention of upsetting anyone. But I accepted that it could be misconstrued, and said nothing...

 

[Jon]

Nowadays, everybody is offended about everything. And I am very offended by Gillette! But I feel a lot of people have a faux offence, feeling they should be offended by something because it crosses some pre-defined moral barrier that a militant activist erected. This is all part of the erosion of your free behaviour. Call it a power-grab or sorts! You said something innocent, they decided to take it in the worst possible way and they castigated you for it. (By the way, castigated is much less painful than castrated, I imagine.)

This moral war is destroying relationships and driving a wedge between the genders, all 80 of them! No wonder fewer people are getting married and the divorce rate is so high!

[Edit: Uncle, I am dying to know what you said!]

 

[Bee]

Okay. I don't feel like I'm ever going to heard here.

I've been very clear that empowering women at the expense of men is problematic. I've said it many times on many posts.

And for as much as you feel attacked, so do I.

 

[Jon]

I've been very clear that empowering women at the expense of men is problematic.

I completely understand what you are saying here. So, I have a question for you. If feminism is about empowering women but not at the expense of men, why do only 7% of women consider themselves a feminist? Is it because they want more than equality, or because they don't believe feminism is about equality or is it they want less than equality? It can't be anything else.

 

[Bee]

I don't know. How is that statistic derived?

 

[Jon]

I got it from here. Top choice in Google. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/only-7-per-cent-of-britons-consider-themselves-feminists/

Looked at others and The Independent says 35% of women consider themselves to be feminist: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-called-a-feminist-is-an-insult-a6728446.html

That means 75% don't.

Same question. Why do only 1 in 3 women consider themselves a feminist? For which of my stated 3 reasons?

I am asking not to be awkward, but to expose a real underlying issue.

 

[Bee]

65%*

I genuinely don't know. I could guess that feminism has had such a bad press that women don't want to identify with it. Or maybe they do identify without realising it has a name.

Not every woman is a feminist but it still doesn't make it fair that there is such inequality still.

 

[Jon]

65%, yes my bad. Although I consider the extra 10% insurance. The term "feminism" has become toxic due to the machinations of noisy third-wave feminism. The women who don't consider themselves a feminist may agree with the principles of equality, but what the term now means has moved away from its historical meaning. I know Bee that you represent what you might consider the "moderate" side of feminism. However, I believe within feminism itself - from the majorities perspective - you represent the extremists' view. You are an outlier. You are chained to the past meaning and the train has moved on from there. The centre of feminism is now about seizing as much power as possible from men. And it starts with attempts to emasculate men using the term "toxic masculinity."

Yes, I agree there is too much inequality. They should stop hating on white men.

Ok, so here it is. My ceremonial burning of Gillette, purged from my life. Or for efficiency, launched into the bin.

It feels good to shed the past. Long live the new hairy! More masculine! Hopefully, by years end I will look like I've escaped from the zoo. Imagine how all that hair would tease the advertising executives at Gillette HQ.

Remember, men are not faulty versions of women that need fixing. We are a completely different gender. "Time of the month love?" is a phrase I used to love to bring out of the back pocket. It is a tease, some humour (from a bygone generation). Yet in reality, women get emotional imbalances once every 28 days. Their moods can go awry and emotions askew. Men don't have the same problem. Yet it is just a natural biological process embedded in the genes of women. Just like testosterone is part of men. I can't see Gillette coming out with an advert saying, "Come on sisters, you're on the blob but that's no excuse!"

Why not celebrate that "boys will be boys"? What is wrong with a man wanting to cook something on a BBQ? If he enjoys it, let him. Suppressing the built in aggression of boys is not going to be a good thing, in my view. It needs an outlet. Hence the rough and tumble of young boys.

And since when is it ok to stereotype men, while banning the stereotyping of women?

The attempted emasculation of men is nothing but a power grab by feminist activists on the left. They want a coup. They want to control our behaviour. And now they are permeating the advertising departments of men's products. There could be evolution at work here. These "woke" organisations may end up going the way of the dodo. #GoWokeGoBroke. WIth Darwinian principles at play in the business world, those more adaptable companies (such as Dollar Shave Club) will grab market share and leapfrog the likes of Gillette. Meanwhile, the latter gets bogged down in political posturing and social engineering, to fit a warped ideology that doesn't match reality. They have effectively slashed their own throats.

Besides, there is one thing saying that women like a guy who fits the emasculated version of evolved man, and there is another which is based on what really attracts women, however unpalatable some may find it. After all, women chose the traits of men that led us to where we are today.

Lastly, to suggest the evolved characteristics of man are toxic is to also shame and blame all men in history. The term "toxic masculinity" itself - whatever the left claim it is supposed to mean - slurs all men and slurs masculinity. They will go on to say it refers to only specific traits, yet that is akin to saying, "Violent Blacks", and then say, "Oh, I only mean the violent ones." The phraseology was deliberately chosen by the feminists to implicated ALL men.

 

[Bee]

Just leaving this here...

https://thenib.com/toxic-masculinit...DlzfCwc37T4vMJsdiepGYktWP0onOZ6oN1zUt3WrWPll4

 

[Jon]

Is that why when men are ill, women say, "It's just man flu?" "He's a wimp." "Man up."

"Only you get to decide the type of person you want to be." - seems like they are trying to decide.

Let's flip it. We don't want to reject feminine ideals. We just want to redefine what it means, rather than judging it through a narrow prism. We just want you to stop shaving your legs, putting on makeup, wearing jewellery. All that time spent on your appearance is toxic. It wastes your time, money and does you no good. We want you to wear men's clothes. Why keep things so narrow and limited? Don't forget those Y-fronts too. They are roomy!

The term patriarchy is a toxic term designed by feminists to divide the sexes and grab power. It is a misportrayal of all the good men have done throughout history. Yes, those men who's traits women selected through personal choice resulting in natural selection.

 

[Bee]

Ah, but if we do stop shaving our legs, putting on make-up, wearing jewellery etc we'll never bag ourselves a 'man'.

 

[Jon]

If we follow the emasculation rhetoric of the radical feminists, we will never bag a woman. That is unless you want a cropped-haired dyke wearing hobnailed boots and a safety-pin through their nose. They think their five-o'clock shadow is de rigueur.

 

[Jon]

A short film - Dedicated to all those who sacrifice everything to make the world safer and better for all of us.

 

[Bee]

This is exactly my point. The patriarchy (as an ideology) hurts us all.

But on a sidenote, I'd much rather watch an advert like that which aims to be inspirational, than be patronised by the Gilette advert.

And, Mr Shakespeare had it about right with this soliloquy from Hamlet:

What a piece of work is man, How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty, In form and moving how express and admirable, In action how like an Angel, In apprehension how like a god, The beauty of the world, The paragon of animals. And yet to me, what is this quintessence of dust? Man delights not me; no, nor Woman neither; though by your smiling you seem to say so.

Hamlet is saying that although humans may appear to think and act "nobly" they are essentially "dust". Hamlet is expressing his melancholy to his old friends over the difference between the best that men aspire to be, and how they actually behave; the great divide that depresses him.

 

[Jon]

Patriarchy is not an ideology. It is an evolved consequence of choices people made.

It sounds like Hamlet is committed to his smooth shave.