Building bridges between polar opposites

Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#1
Having watched a lot of US politics over the last 2 or 3 years, something that strikes me is how intelligent people can have such polar opposite views. The divisive debate between Left and Right, Male and Female, Rich and Poor...it just goes on and on and on.

How do you bridge the gap between polar opposite views, knowing how entrenched beliefs can be?

I genuinely have no idea, since debate doesn't seem to have bridged anything!
 

The_Doc_Man

Founding Member
#2
The only way to build the bridge is to realize that the world isn't a place with infinite resources. The two sides you see in USA politics are waging their political war on where to draw the line in terms of resource sharing. The left / liberal / Democrat side wants rich people to share more with the poor people. The right / conservative / Republican side wants people to be able to keep what they have earned. And there are more poor people than there are rich people. It IS clear that if you took all the money from the rich people and gave it to the poor people, there STILL would not be enough to go around. Therefore, you see the battles with an intensity that seems like they are fighting for survival.

You CANNOT bridge a "survival" gap. People don't work that way. You have to FORCE people to realize that compromise is the only answer. I don't claim to know where the best dividing line should go. But I do know that when more people are working, it is possible for some of the "survival level" tensions to be reduced.
 

The_Doc_Man

Founding Member
#4
It is a matter of where you draw the line. Consider the sardonic wisdom of George Orwell in Animal Farm. "All animals are equal - but some are more equal than others."

The philosophical difference comes about when you ask the question, "How do we achieve the greatest good?" I am reminded of the old Chinese proverb that is central to some of this topic: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

It is the basic premise of the conservative side of the USA political spectrum that the greater good is based in self-reliance, not being dependent on the charity of others (long-term). Therefore, the conservative side of the battle pushes the ideas that nobody is motivated if they don't go out and earn their money like everyone else - by good, honest work.

The liberal side of the issue (as nearly as I can see it) is that some people, no matter what they do, cannot be totally self-reliant and make a decent wage. Therefore, they should not be penalized for their lack of self-reliance.

Again, it is a balancing act. Without incentive, nobody strives to do better. This is EXACTLY why communism eventually fails. Without incentives, production drops off a cliff and everyone gets the same. It's called starvation. Socialism when carried to an extreme also fails. The best definition I've ever seen is that "socialism fails when they run out of someone else's money to spend." Witness Greece as a recent major example of same.

It will always be about where you draw the line. And neither side wants to budge because they KNOW that at the moment, ANY movement is a loss for them.
 

Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#5
Vested interests...

The best definition I've ever seen is that "socialism fails when they run out of someone else's money to spend." Witness Greece as a recent major example of same.
Nice quotes. Don't forget Venezuela. It's completely gone to pot since Socialism infected the nation.

The way I see it is that the more benefits you give people in need, the more those not in need start seeking the benefits. Then you get a growing welfare system that incentivises fewer and fewer people to work. You get a top down pyramid where the hard-working few are supporting the disingenuous many.

Let me be clear that I am well aware some people in society need welfare support. Yet when I know two people who were unemployed for over 12 years, by personal choice, I know there is something wrong with the system. Let me give you a few choice quotes: "I've paid my taxes!"; "Working doesn't suit my lifestyle."; "It's easy to fake you are depressed at the doctors." These scroungers were living off the backs of working people like myself, yet they get given their own home paid for by the government, together with an income.
 

The_Doc_Man

Founding Member
#6
I am not an advocate for returning to a neolithic lifestyle, but in such times the slackers were well known and got a LOT of peer pressure to contribute to the group. And, of course, the ULTIMATE peer pressure - eviction, left to face the wilderness alone.
 

Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#10
Perhaps it was just a question of time before one of the parties brought in the NHS, as opposed to a socialist party wanting to keep its population healthy.
 
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