Bathroom laws, trans and little boys

I entered an iffy discussion on a status on Facebook re “women’s and children’s spaces need to be protected”.

Obviously the majority disagreed. Then I thought why I may have thought that in further detail.

Several points:
*they have no children
*those who have children are girls, so they would go to a girls bathroom anyway
*they both have boys, but one is a baby and facilities regarding babies are more accessible regarding females

Then the observation of mothers to kids, even at school age can lock doors but I have seen over many years that most women will allow their sons to go to a Male bathroom on their own 7+.

It’s a situation that goes back potentially millions of years. Of course women can commit sexual assault, but males are more likely to do so.

So who is to say we are wrong to allow men into our bathrooms, our changing rooms or our safe spaces.


Founding Member
Despite our claim to be an intellectually advanced civilization, there are still those of us who become so troubled by people who are somehow "different" that they cannot be near them. In essence, they can't "let it be" because they are so bothered by those differences even though they would just a quickly tell someone to "Mind Your Own Business" if someone talked about them at a personal level. It is sad but probably true that we are not as advanced as we would like to think we are.

I know that the furor at least partly originates from folks with religious issues having to do with childhood indoctrination about how gay people are sinners, anathema, horrible, etc. (Pick your favorite epithet.) Kids are often brought up with rigid gender thinking. There is no way to easily break them out of that mold that won't undercut the parents. And therein lies the "high moral ground" conflict. Teaching kids to hate / distrust / dislike folks with alternative gender viewpoints is terrible - but it is often performed by the parents, who actually are the folks with the greatest right to bring up their kids and the greatest opportunity to influence them.

That seeming conflict of authority is an issue. Parents teaching hatred is bad - but taking parental authority away is also bad. And there is the source of the conundrum. I remember having a discussion in another context regarding conflicts like this. The topic was about law conflicts and the summary of the conversation was that we don't really understand our laws until we find them in conflict and resolve that conflict to see which law wins. The other part of that discussion was that it was in exactly those conflicts that lawyers made tons of money.

Uncle Gizmo

Founding Member
I was brought up to use the concept of chaperoning. This means I will not allow myself to be in a position where someone could say that something happened.

In practice, this meant if any of my children had a friend over, and I had to take the friend home, then my child would come with me.

I I recall on one occasion I had to take a child home without out a chaperone, so I rang the child's mother when I left so that it was obvious how much time had passed, this avoiding the potential for any misunderstanding.

Although I have on occasions been in women's toilets, occasionally sorting out a child problem, and lately helping my mother, I always make sure there isn't anyone else present, or if a lady turns up, I will stand outside, but with the obvious possibility that I might have to enter if my mother gets into difficulty. Again in a sense I am now chaperoned by my mother.

I can see no reason why I would enter ladies toilets, only on the odd occasion where the signage is confusing and it's by mistake, as it is at Barcelona airport, where often ladies wander into the men's and vice versa!

I can't understand why a man even a man that is dressed as a woman would want to go in a ladies toilet?

Even if I decided to change my sex, I still think I would be inhibited by this chaperoning instinct.

Even more so I think that if I was to turn into a woman, and thought like a woman, then it would be even more important to me not to go into the ladies toilets because being feminine I would be more sensitive and understand why it would be so upsetting to the other women, to have this former man in the facility.

In other words it seems it's more about the man who has decided to be a woman, exercising his/her right..

A properly brought up man would not do it, and a properly brought up man who has become a woman would not do it either.


Founding Member
But Uncle G, the issue of "properly brought up" is the issue of rigid thinking. Once a person is uncomfortable in his/her skin, he/she ALSO becomes uncomfortable with rigid gender identification standards. You and I, who don't have gender dysphoria, can't imagine the feelings of a person with this problem. (At least, I am presuming that neither of us are dysphoric about our gender identity.)

This is definitely a case of being unable to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. Or heels, as the case may be.