Are you an atheist?
- Thread starter Jon
- Start date
As a pragmatist, I work on the evidence available. I have found so many flaws in the Bible that I cannot accept it as anything other than the ancient equivalent to Aesop's Fables or Grimm's Faerie Tales - collections of stories to amuse, amaze, and educate kids regarding their culture. Stories to tell the kids around the village campfire because (of course) they didn't have TV, radio, iPhones, or even newspapers with comics pages. And bored kids need to stay corralled to keep them from mischief.
I see the Bible as stories of people and their beliefs in God. However, modern science and recent archaeological discoveries have made it clear that many of the stories in the Bible can be interpreted TWO ways: As miracles - or as primitive people assigning miraculous properties to natural events. I choose to believe the latter interpretation.
Since Islam is an offshoot of Judaism and Christianity, they are no better. In fact, given the violence of some of their sects, I think they are worse. Though the Westboro Baptist Church crowd is almost that bad. Violence in the name of religion is inexcusable in a civilized society.
Muslims who have posted in other forums freely admit that they know of Jesus - as a prophet, not as divinity. Such differences are EASILY causes for schisms. See, for example, Martin Luther and the Protestant schism. So despite the differences, Muslims and Christians are very much alike. That is to say, they are intransigent, unforgiving of people not of their religion, heavily antagonistic to "sinners" and undesirables, and unwilling to face reality. Once religion kicked in the concept of afterlife to soften the concept of death, that pretty much locked in the deal. People can't face the concept of nothingness, even though there is nothing (literally) to fear.
I actually like some parts of the Bible for the good advice to be found. Things like the value of forgiveness, the value of honesty, and the importance of family. Some of the parables make perfect sense. For instance, the parable of the Sower and the Seeds - conveying the lesson that it is wrong to expect too much from something (or someone) when your desires are not in tune with the someone/something's abilities. Other things from religion are valuable as well. The Golden Rule and its variants make sense as a way for people to get along with each other. The serenity prayer is a good guideline about trying to learn to focus on the achievable and to endure the unchangeable.
I simply can't accept the stories about magic or miracles or divine intervention. That makes me a severe skeptic. I honestly don't care what other people believe. But I do care when people make a claim that is refutable. Believe for whatever reason you have - but if you lie or misrepresent something, don't expect me to be silent. When you expressed your views, you made them public. And I will make my rebuttals public.
I see the Bible as stories of people and their beliefs in God. However, modern science and recent archaeological discoveries have made it clear that many of the stories in the Bible can be interpreted TWO ways: As miracles - or as primitive people assigning miraculous properties to natural events. I choose to believe the latter interpretation.
Since Islam is an offshoot of Judaism and Christianity, they are no better. In fact, given the violence of some of their sects, I think they are worse. Though the Westboro Baptist Church crowd is almost that bad. Violence in the name of religion is inexcusable in a civilized society.
Muslims who have posted in other forums freely admit that they know of Jesus - as a prophet, not as divinity. Such differences are EASILY causes for schisms. See, for example, Martin Luther and the Protestant schism. So despite the differences, Muslims and Christians are very much alike. That is to say, they are intransigent, unforgiving of people not of their religion, heavily antagonistic to "sinners" and undesirables, and unwilling to face reality. Once religion kicked in the concept of afterlife to soften the concept of death, that pretty much locked in the deal. People can't face the concept of nothingness, even though there is nothing (literally) to fear.
I actually like some parts of the Bible for the good advice to be found. Things like the value of forgiveness, the value of honesty, and the importance of family. Some of the parables make perfect sense. For instance, the parable of the Sower and the Seeds - conveying the lesson that it is wrong to expect too much from something (or someone) when your desires are not in tune with the someone/something's abilities. Other things from religion are valuable as well. The Golden Rule and its variants make sense as a way for people to get along with each other. The serenity prayer is a good guideline about trying to learn to focus on the achievable and to endure the unchangeable.
I simply can't accept the stories about magic or miracles or divine intervention. That makes me a severe skeptic. I honestly don't care what other people believe. But I do care when people make a claim that is refutable. Believe for whatever reason you have - but if you lie or misrepresent something, don't expect me to be silent. When you expressed your views, you made them public. And I will make my rebuttals public.
I believe in God and that other lesser gods exist. I am a Christian and it is hard to state there is only one God when the Bible specifically states not to put any others before Yahweh / Jehovah (whatever name you choose to employ).
There have been too many things in my life that have lined up perfectly in spite of my efforts or lack thereof for me to discount the possibility of God being an influence in my life.
@The_Doc_Man: I read your post; I'd appreciate it if you simply let me respond to the survey and leave it alone as a matter of respect between those who disagree.
There have been too many things in my life that have lined up perfectly in spite of my efforts or lack thereof for me to discount the possibility of God being an influence in my life.
@The_Doc_Man: I read your post; I'd appreciate it if you simply let me respond to the survey and leave it alone as a matter of respect between those who disagree.
Insane_AI - respond to the survey as you wish. If you state your beliefs, I'm good with that. My comment should be taken in this sense: The MOMENT you try to convert me, I am allowed to try to convert you. (Do unto others...). I will defend your right to your beliefs side by side with you despite not sharing your beliefs. But the moment you begin proselytizing me, we might have an issue.
Actually, its the same advice I give to gay people the first time we meet and I learn which way they swing. I couldn't care less what you do in private, whether that is in the privacy of your mind or of your bedroom. I just want it know that we don't always follow the same path.
Actually, its the same advice I give to gay people the first time we meet and I learn which way they swing. I couldn't care less what you do in private, whether that is in the privacy of your mind or of your bedroom. I just want it know that we don't always follow the same path.
I always hope I lose an argument. Why win when you can learn something new? Besides, I now view arguments as a battle. But I want to win the war. Then again, if I keep losing I won't win the war either. I will be just a very educated loser!
Religion is a VERY contentious subject. Belief systems run to the very core of our being.
Religion is a VERY contentious subject. Belief systems run to the very core of our being.
People are ingrained with religious beliefs from a young age. Their culture and lifestyle can revolve around the routines, which then become fixed habits. And we all know how difficult it is to break a habit. Imagine if your entire mind is wired towards certain beliefs. So hard to shift the perspective, as your lodged beliefs will seek out evidence confirming your existing belief, rather than challenging them. This is called Motivated Reasoning.
It happens to us all, not just about religion. A scientist will suffer the same psychological forces. Neural wiring is a physical process that leads to mental perspective.
It happens to us all, not just about religion. A scientist will suffer the same psychological forces. Neural wiring is a physical process that leads to mental perspective.
Without wishing to cause offence to anyone who holds religious beliefs...
I can understand the need for evolutionary beliefs - ie to protect us from danger. But why the distinct and common need to believe in a higher power? That's not going to save our lives (in this world at least). Maybe we need a Philosophy thread.
I can understand the need for evolutionary beliefs - ie to protect us from danger. But why the distinct and common need to believe in a higher power? That's not going to save our lives (in this world at least). Maybe we need a Philosophy thread.
I have considered an entire philosophy section, but I want to keep the number of forums down for now. Wait until we get the numbers up.
Regarding belief in a higher power, a thought just came to mind. Could it not be just an extension of our desire to follow authority? There is a pecking order in all groups (except for the Knights of the round table!). So the next step from that is someone with even more authority! The Creator!
Regarding belief in a higher power, a thought just came to mind. Could it not be just an extension of our desire to follow authority? There is a pecking order in all groups (except for the Knights of the round table!). So the next step from that is someone with even more authority! The Creator!
Occam's Razor would like it. Perhaps there is another evolutionary reason. Those who believed in a spiritual leader or God abided by a code of conduct, in fear of being nuked on the spot. From chaos there was order, with fear being the shepherd that guides the herd. It could be the force that prevents people following through on their wild impulses.
Back in the day perhaps you did, because there was less code of conduct in ancient times. We couldn't even speak!! 
By worshipping a God, it could have brought about group cohesiveness. This offers protection verses a weakly associated group with flimsy belief systems and no reason to fight the cause.
By worshipping a God, it could have brought about group cohesiveness. This offers protection verses a weakly associated group with flimsy belief systems and no reason to fight the cause.