TERF’s - the new(ish) slur against biological women

#1
If you were not aware - TERF is an acronym for ‘Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist’.

Has being PC gone too far? Why should bio women forgo protecting female spaces?

If I’m at the gym or pool, I don’t want to see Susan parading around in the changing room with her gentleman vegetable on show.

Why is it ‘anti-trans’ for bio women have to forgo their right to their ‘safe’ spaces to appease bio men?

Discuss.
 

Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#2
I think to a degree, just the term feminist is exclusionary since it refers to women's rights and not peoples rights. :p

Maybe TERF should be relabelled to Trans Exclusionary Radical Exclusionist.
 
#3
Feminism is about equal rights. Males are born with more privilege.

If we are all born equal, then there wouldn’t be so much hoo-hah over abortion laws, periods etc.

I suppose it links into why I don’t like labelling. As humans, we like to organise things as a general rule.

You cannot ignore biological *fact*, however.
 

Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#4
You are right, we are not born equal. We differ on different things. How many men would enjoy the privilege of living 3+ years longer (on average) than their opposite gender?
 
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#5
That is just looking at things from a mathematical standpoint re averages.

Where have you collated data re ailments, quality of life etc?

Being ‘alive’ and enjoying living are a different kettle of fish. Enrichment vs the daily grind - that’s applicable to all, no matter what age.
 

Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#6
The mathematical perspective is a measurement of reality. It counts. Statistics are not just numbers. They reflect what is going on in the real world, aggregating generalities into hard facts that you can work with.

To die earlier, you need ailments earlier. Would you not prefer ailments later? I would, given the choice. To have the gift of extra life is a blessing.

Does retirement class as the daily grind?
 
#8
The mathematical perspective is a measurement of reality. It counts. Statistics are not just numbers. They reflect what is going on in the real world, aggregating generalities into hard facts that you can work with.

To die earlier, you need ailments earlier. Would you not prefer ailments later? I would, given the choice. To have the gift of extra life is a blessing.

Does retirement class as the daily grind?
Just off the top of my head - I remember a quotation “Beware the statistician“. I can’t quite remember where from.

If you are clued up on statistics, you will know that they can be manipulated. Stats vs logical argument can and are subjected to bias based on the number cruncher.
 
#9
It's easy to tell you are new on this forum, and the boys are playing nicely so they don't scare you off. I'd never have got away with that comment.

Brava, that woman.
I have just had a browse at threads. There do not seem to be many women on here.

Why do you think you wouldn’t have ‘gotten away’ with the comment I made?

Eta: I have my thinking cap on now. Referring to those people as merely ‘boys’ may be emasculating? Words are extremely powerful tools.
 
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Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#10
Actually, I disagree! How do you manipulate statistics? If you are suggesting you make up numbers, then that is just lying and nothing to do with statistics. You can lie without using statistics too. The problem is that people who don't understand statistics misread them. They cannot interpret them correctly and so mislead themselves.

The person who said, "Beware the statistician" probably failed maths. It is not an argument with evidence.
 

Bee

Founding Member
#11
Because in the past when I've posted stuff about feminism - and the need for men to be feminists too - I invariably get a lot of #mentoo responses. It's exhausting.
 
#12
Actually, I disagree! How do you manipulate statistics? If you are suggesting you make up numbers, then that is just lying and nothing to do with statistics. You can lie without using statistics too. The problem is that people who don't understand statistics misread them. They cannot interpret them correctly and so mislead themselves.

The person who said, "Beware the statistician" probably failed maths. It is not an argument with evidence.
You can and indeed people do. Advertising is a good example. ‘A study of 50 women found that this particular had effectiveness for 95%’. Mathematics may be sound, but application to product muddies the waters somewhat.
 
#16
I recall Mark Twain (Samuel L Clemens) once being quoted as saying: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Someone who is really good with statistics can say ANYTHING THEY WANT and trot out stats to prove it. What they don't tell you, and the reason why statistics are at the top of the "lies" pool, is that with judicious selection of your test population, you can get a crowd to agree with anything. With careful wording of your questions, you can get people to agree that sometimes black is white. It is also possible to pass in crap data but then make folks focus on the conclusion and ignore the fallacies in the source.
 
#17
This thread has really made me chuckle! Insomuch that the initial question I put ‘out there’ has been completely overlooked in favour of debating over the commercial (and often political) manipulation of stats! Brilliant. We can back fill and link to my time travel thread, perhaps?! 😂
 

Bee

Founding Member
#18
Obfuscation.

I personally don't have too much of an issue with Susan having man vegetables still. But, yes, I think I'd be less comfortable if Susan then wanted to use the same changing space as me. There are too many things that could go wrong.

We've had an issue in work recently where some very well-meaning people have prioritised confidentiality over security and safety - and it led to a very nasty assault on a member of staff last week. I've spent a lot of time in the last few days reviewing security policies, risk assessments etc and have reached the conclusion that being politically correct doesn't just cloud issues, but contributes to them. So yes, while I applaud and support Susan in her quest to be her true self, I have one eye on keeping me safe.
 
#19
When I was working my way through college, I was a musician on Bourbon Street. One of the band members had played in another band a few blocks deeper into the French Quarter so was able to give us some tips about people parading around pretending to be who they weren't. This was long before the days in which gender reassignment surgery was commonplace. There were those bio-males who actually made a convincing woman until you "got into something more comfortable." Thankfully, our senior member watched out for us until we learned how to detect the convincing masquerades. We also had to learn to not laugh at the less convincing charades. There is nothing quite so dramatic as a scorned queen. Trust me!

I actually had the chance to talk to someone who felt s/he was a victim of some disorder but back then we didn't know as much as we do now. I made it clear that I would talk to the person but nothing else. There was a lot of fear and lot of confusion in his/her head. I could not offer any advice at the time. However, I met my share of LGBTQ types. Most of them were trying to be what they knew they weren't but felt they should have been.

Today I see some small progress, but there are still pervs out there who abuse the situation. That is what bothers me more than anything else. Bee, you are right to be cautious. There is still no substitute for actually getting to know someone to find out whether you will have these nasty assaults. There is still a mean streak of homophobia out there in the world. A guy out at work MANY years ago - like, 40+ years - was fired due to a false accusation of making a sexual advance. I knew Pete and knew he wouldn't make a pass at some guy at work because I knew his partner at the time. Besides, the guy who claimed the advance just wasn't his type. But since I wasn't a witness to the event I couldn't help him. Made me forever not trust the guy who did that.
 
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