Microsoft Access - seeking prophets

Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#1
This post is rather specific for this type of forum, but I am curious on opinions of where it might be heading. Is it slowly dying as a platform, or is there life in the old dog yet?

I am so far behind the times on what is happening with Microsoft Access that I have no idea. My inclination is tilting towards there being so many more competing platforms nowadays, that unless something is cloud-based, it loses its edge.
 

The_Doc_Man

Founding Member
#2
"Cloud-based" is a thing for certain businesses, but people misuse it. I can only go by history. Nay-sayers and gloom-and-doom software types have predicted the end of Access at least four or five times, but the problem is always this: The technically superior solutions always have such a huge learning curve that it remains cheaper to use Access. And some of those "technically superior" solutions have technically inferior robustness. We must remember that the massive majority (80%? 90%?) of all business is SMALL business for which a global solution isn't needed. They want something small that runs on their one-lung computer and works. Access does that.

Is it outdated? Damned right it is. Is there something out there that is better? So far, several things have fallen by the wayside. I'm not holding my breath on that one.
 

Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#3
Interesting to hear your perspective Doc. I have designed countless databases for small (mostly) and medium (occasionally) -sized enterprises. It is such a wonderful app to whip up something productive.

What would you consider to be the main competing alternatives to Microsoft Access that the small to medium sized enterprise might use?
 

The_Doc_Man

Founding Member
#4
With the U.S. Navy's New Orleans Data Center, we had a couple of ORACLE databases and more than one SQL Server database. We had a smattering of others, including perhaps one or two Sybase DBs. I don't recall any Informix or DB2 projects, but we were only the south-east regional data center. The Navy had at least three more regional data centers in San Diego, Norfolk, and Seattle. I understand there is a USMC (Navy-affiliated) center near Kansas City, but don't know much about it; it was under construction when I left. I know the Army and the Air Force have data centers as well, as does the Coast Guard. So I'm sure that everywhere you look you would find some oddball and some common DB systems.

These days, military folks most often go straight for web-activated DBs for which there are a gazillion web/DB tool sets, and Access doesn't do super-well on that front by itself. But Access is very good at providing in-house ODBC-based interfaces to a back-end database other than "native" Access format. At the same time, the web tools ALSO can work with that common non-Access back-end. Therefore, one of the most powerful in-house methods is the hybrid of Access front-end forms & reports but web-based outward-facing forms and reports as well, using a 3rd party database.

Now, 25+ years ago, there was a mainframe/super-mini product called SmartStar that was about as close to Access as you could get on machines that did mostly batch processing and not that much interactive stuff. It could only do character-cell graphics, forms, and reports - but it was very good at what it did. The problem, of course, is that time had passed by that technology but the Navy had economic reasons to stay with it LONG after it should have been discarded on the scrap heap. I retired about a year before the fourth hardware iteration of that system finally was shut down. By the time I had retired, all of the menu interfaces were web-enabled from ORACLE and ORACLE Tools. They were converting the remaining batch processes one by one, and my assistants could handle that system without my help. One year after I retired, they finished the job.

As far as small business products? With the Borland Paradox product now owned by Corel and with FoxPro having been bought out by Microsoft, there aren't THAT many small, general DB products. A LOT of vendors offer specialized pre-packaged systems. Take, for example, QuickBooks, which is a dedicated purpose DBM for a business with personnal, accounting, sales, and a couple of other components. But if you do a search on "small business database solutions" you see things that are MOSTLY based on SQL services plus whatever that vendor offers as a design package. I happen to think that Access still does the best job out-of-the-box as a small business solution. The ability of Access to work with other members of Office just strengthens its case.

The biggest negative factor in the mix is that the other Office components can be taught quickly. My wife used to teach Office components. Give her about two days and she would have you working with Word like a pro. Excel was another two-day situation. Outlook was one day to get started. PowerPoint was two days worth of classes and then done. But the problem with Access is that a week isn't enough to teach database design, and THERE is where things go south in a hurry. Oh, Access is pretty easy to use from the front-end mechanical viewpoint. BUT unlike some of the utilities, there are SERIOUS procedural consequences down the road if you have made bad design choices. The novice with Access can get something up and running quickly, true. But the more complex the problem, the worse it gets to develop.

Therefore, when you ask me whether there is another good product like Access - it's a diminutive comparison because there is NO product that will hold your hand and step you through the pitfalls of what you are about to build. Access just comes closer than some others, but it doesn't do that much better because of the nature of the problem to be solved.
 

Uncle Gizmo

Founding Member
#5
I have been helping a charity out with Microsoft Dynamics 365, which on the face of it looks like a reasonable attempt from Microsoft to get something similar to MS Access onto the internet. I'm a complete beginner at Dynamics 365. The Charity have a good man on site, but he's overloaded with his day job. I'm helping by doing simple stuff like building forms, adding tables and data. I note that it's very "flat file" which is a bit cringeworthy, for me at least. Having said that, flat-file works very well in many cases.

Aesthetically it's quite impressive and makes some lovely forms. I believe Microsoft have made a good start in the right direction. I also get the sense that this is a serious attempt from Microsoft, and I think it's worth pursuing. Mind you don't come back to me in a couple of years time and say why the hell did you say use that! They've just withdrawn it. You know as well as I do that this extremely possible.

The other problem for people from a VBA background (MS Access) is if you want to do anything serious with it you need to learn JavaScript. I think this would be well worth doing, learning JavaScript as Google have taken it up, and now Microsoft are taking it up in a serious way, so it's definitely the next language to learn. Also the Google variety, "Google App Scripts" for their spreadsheets and documents is useful and well supported, with lots of information and help. In other words it's quite an easy road into this language. If I had my own MS Access Forum I would be considering adding JavaScript as a forum area to preserve the longevity of my forum. But I reckon before adding JavaScript, it might be a good idea to add an office Dynamics 365 section --- Both really!
 
#6
Before retiring, I used Access to develop several databases. Since retiring, I have abandoned Microsoft products and moved on to Linux (Ubuntu). Since there was not a MS Access equivalent, I looked into using MySQL (now MariaDB) and my web-browser for my home network. A financial benefit, all the software is free. This approach has worked out very well for me.

But in terms of your question: "What would you consider to be the main competing alternatives to Microsoft Access that the small to medium sized enterprise might use?" I would say that using and open-source database, such as MySQL (MariaDB) with a browser would be the appropriate way to go. I should also add that my home database is simple, so there may be reasons for why this approach would not work for a business.

Uncle Gizmo notes: 'If I had my own MS Access Forum I would be considering adding JavaScript as a forum area to preserve the longevity of my forum" I do note the subforum - "PHP&MySQL. I have used it a few times and I would like to use it more. Maybe this subforum could be elevated to being more visible and more focused on using an opensouce database with a browser. The downside, this would detract from AccessWorld being an Access only forum.
 

The_Doc_Man

Founding Member
#7
Steve, many forums have become "impure" over time. The Excel Forum has an Access section. Jon's Access forum has Word and PowerPoint sections.
 

Jon

Administrator
Staff member
#8
Steve, interesting comments there. It seems everyone has a different opinion on this topic. What you have said makes sense. I can see how something free and open sourced like MySQL/Javascript/browser could become ubiquitous.

Your comments about the order of the topics has got me thinking. Perhaps the Excel section needs elevating, since it seems so popular.
 

The_Doc_Man

Founding Member
#9
Jon, speaking of Access - the Access World forum has a certificate problem. First reported by Gina Whipp, but others noted it too. They've been trying to reach you but apparently those who have your phone say your mailbox is full.
 
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